[Podcast] Data extractivism: DiPLab Antonio Casilli interviewed on Radio Onda RossaAntonio Casilli, professor at Institut Polytechnique de Paris and author of
Waiting for Robots. The Hired Hands of Automation (University of Chicago Press,
2025), was interviewed by Radio Onda Rossa, one of the oldest independent
Italian “free” radios. The name of the program was Entropia Massima (Maximum
Entropy) and the topic was Data Extractivism, Artificial Intelligence, and work.
https://archive.degenerazione.xyz/download/ent_max_24_25_202411/puntata_EDD8_NR.mp3
The first part examines artificial intelligence from the perspective of the
hidden labor that makes it work. Casilli explains that behind every algorithm,
chatbot, or app lies a vast network of often invisible, underpaid workers who
train and moderate AI systems. The discussion links digital exploitation to
automation, showing that human labor is not eliminated but merely relocated and
made less visible.
In the second part, the focus turns to “invisibilized labor” in the age of
platforms and AI. Casilli describes how many digital workers, even in Europe,
remain hidden from public view, often bound by confidentiality agreements and
precarious conditions. The segment highlights the historical continuity of
hidden labor, drawing parallels between past practices and new forms of global
exploitation that move from physical assembly lines to cognitive and digital
ones.
The third part addresses political and labor perspectives, including grassroots
union initiatives, collective legal actions, and the idea of AI cooperatives. It
also discusses the concept of a “digital universal income” as a way to
redistribute value and recognize the contributions of both “data workers” and
user-consumers, stressing the need for social justice adapted to the changes
brought by automation.
To read the full transcript of the episode, click here.