[Podcast] Data extractivism: DiPLab Antonio Casilli interviewed on Radio Onda Rossa

Antonio Casilli, professor at Institut Polytechnique de Paris and author of Waiting for Robots. The Hired Hands of Automation (University of Chicago Press, 2025), was interviewed by Radio Onda Rossa, one of the oldest independent Italian “free” radios. The name of the program was Entropia Massima (Maximum Entropy) and the topic was Data Extractivism, Artificial Intelligence, and work.

The first part examines artificial intelligence from the perspective of the hidden labor that makes it work. Casilli explains that behind every algorithm, chatbot, or app lies a vast network of often invisible, underpaid workers who train and moderate AI systems. The discussion links digital exploitation to automation, showing that human labor is not eliminated but merely relocated and made less visible.

In the second part, the focus turns to “invisibilized labor” in the age of platforms and AI. Casilli describes how many digital workers, even in Europe, remain hidden from public view, often bound by confidentiality agreements and precarious conditions. The segment highlights the historical continuity of hidden labor, drawing parallels between past practices and new forms of global exploitation that move from physical assembly lines to cognitive and digital ones.

The third part addresses political and labor perspectives, including grassroots union initiatives, collective legal actions, and the idea of AI cooperatives. It also discusses the concept of a “digital universal income” as a way to redistribute value and recognize the contributions of both “data workers” and user-consumers, stressing the need for social justice adapted to the changes brought by automation.

To read the full transcript of the episode, click here.