On September 29th, Antonio Casilli was invited to the podcast Les Temps Électriques by Sophie Sontag-Koenig, alongside Arnaud Casado, a legal researcher and member of the Sorbonne’s Judicial Institute, who specializes in labour law. In this episode, entitled “Algorithms at Work! Sociological Investigations and Legal Mobilizations,” the two researchers question the transformations of labour caused by AI, the importance of CSEs (Social and Economic Committees), data workers’ rights, and the environmental toll of AI. Casilli’s interview opens with the “invisible work” carried out by data workers, far removed from the smooth image of the data scientists and engineers we imagine behind AI. He describes this vast category of workers who “teach” AI, label data, and moderate content, more often than not in countries of the Global South. He explains how tangible their work actually is and adds: “This work is far from invisible as soon as we start looking for the workers behind it.” Arnaud Casado considers the possibility of fighting against AI through the law, and especially through the relationship of subordination between workers and companies. One possibility could be the Duty of Vigilance Law. Recently, Teleperformance was formally notified to undertake a comprehensive review of its vigilance plan, by the Kenyan workers’ association Oversight Lab Africa and the Data Labellers Association. Casilli reminds us that Kenyan workers face very low wages, are denied labour rights such as maternity leave, and are often relocated by Teleperformance itself, which hires them from other African countries, leading to visa blackmailing, and illegal employment. This is the first time the Duty of Vigilance Law has been mobilized in this way. Later in the interview, Casilli links data workers and the environment by pointing out that data worker hubs and AI extractivist infrastructures, such as lithium mines and data centers whose voracious water consumption is endangering local communities, can often be found in the same places, mainly in the Global South. He then discusses the Chilean situation, where he is currently conducting research, and the case of activists from the Atacama Desert who are currently fighting against the development of data centers in the oasis they have inhabited for generations. He describes these areas in the Global South as “sacrificial areas”, where “human resources are sacrificed as much as environmental resources.” Casilli closes the podcast by reminding us to question the technologies that make our lives easier at work, or that are presented as “more ethical”. For example, Zoom is often presented as an alternative to in-person meetings, which are considered more polluting. Yet Zoom itself involves AI and therefore relies on the invisible, poorly paid work of thousands of workers across the globe, as well as on data centers and other polluting technologies. You can listen to the podast here